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R Moore
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Joined: 16 Sep 2005
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Location: Australia, NSW, Baulkham Hills

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:00 am    Post subject: 14,121 ft Reply with quote

14,121 ft above ground level Tuesday 27/9
12,700 ft above ground level Friday 30/9
10,681 ft was last years best.

388 ft short of claimed record of 14,509 ft.
Next year we will have it!


Bob Moore
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kaos



Joined: 06 Jun 2008
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Location: South Australia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done!

Have a safe trip home
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stevef
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumbs up, way up.
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DarrylW



Joined: 02 Jun 2005
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Location: Holland, Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! That's impressive. Must be frustrating to be so close but not quite there..

Darryl
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R Moore
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarrylW wrote:
Wow! That's impressive. Must be frustrating to be so close but not quite there..

Darryl

Yes, very frustrating but not wanting to breach CASA conditions. Spent 45 minutes trying to coax another 500 ft but needed to start winding in to be down by last light. Mike wanted to go on but I insisted on winding in. It was tempting though to fly on into the night!
Very pleased with result and know if we persist we will have the single line record. 9,500 meters of line used and had another 2,500 up our sleeve. Got the kite down in 2 hours having the winch operating pretty much flat out all the way. Strobe visible flashing brilliantly from 5,000 ft down.
Yesterday got to 12,700 ft then line broke but may be recovered by mine engineers on Tuesday as we tracked down to 550 ft.

Bob Moore
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R Moore
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kaos wrote:
Well done!

Have a safe trip home

Thanks Kevin,

Terminated any further attempts early today and arrived home this evening after 9 hours on the road. I'm planning next years attempt already! Didn't catch up with David Horan (DJP) in Dubbo as others wanted to get back home (sorry David)
Will be on ABC radio 702 on Monday night around 8 - 9 pm with a summary of the week. Was on 4 nights in a row this week with Robbie Buck. He has turned out to be a high altitude kite enthusiast!

Bob Moore
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OldGoat



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good job well done. Next year will bring it. Exclamation Smile
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quincy



Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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Location: Head in the clouds.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So close. Sounds like you've got your earlier roadblocks solved.

Good luck on your next attempt!
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"Bouncing over the white clouds, killing the blues." - Roly Salley
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powder_pig
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations on your flight. It seems a shame to be so close and yet so fay. You will make it . Very Happy
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Ron

It's sunny and windy in the summer and cold and snowy in the winter...this must be what heaven is like.
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Jeepster



Joined: 11 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R Moore wrote:
... Very pleased with result and know if we persist we will have the single line record. ...

Bob Moore


Very impressive to come that close!! Frustrating also, I understand. The above sentence stood out the most ... that's symbolic of folks who do succeed. Looking forward to next year.

Love to hear about your adventures, keep on writing about them.

Cheers,
Tom
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R Moore
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was annoying that the line broke when kite at 12,700 ft on Friday because it ended what looked like a record breaking flight to 15,000 ft and beyond. The line was under tremendous tension (for it's diameter) for hours. The max wind was 39 knots at 8,000 ft and in the 20's and 30's from 5,000 throught to 16,000 ft. These winds aren't gusts but steady state with small variations up and down. The line was sitting between 20 & 30 degrees from 8,000 ft up. I don't know what the line tension was. If the tension just exceeded the line strength then it was 180 lb at least (186 lb line). I will have a running line tensiometer next year. They are very expensive ($1,800+).
The line broke at 2,288 meter point so did not drag through trees/scrub. The kite only drifted 8 miles ending up 12 miles away. It took 15.5 minutes for kite to reach ground, telemetry tracking till signal blocked at 550 ft by tree line. We know where it is but didn't have 4 x 4 or access to property as owner is away. Although we had 2 sets of backup line and 4 other kites, I couldn't use new backup telemetry unit due to stuffup by me. Also the sky was closed in with low cloud and we are not allowed to fly into cloud.
People from the mine are looking on Tuesday.
Kite viewed through theodolite showed wings bent right back and under tremendous load. These Dunton Deltas are superb kites with wind range 5 - 25 knots. Over 25 knots they will tolerate but lose lift and efficiency. Increasing line payout often saw kite climb but had to keep winch ticking over slowly least motor overpowered by line tension. If the wind was 10 knots less then I think 18,000 ft was possible. We have lots of video and I'll post on Youtube when I get hold of it.

Bob
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Last edited by R Moore on Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:42 am; edited 2 times in total
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Doug LaRock
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob, good to hear of all your hard work. Hope you break the record next year.

I've been building some line pull gages. I believe I could modify one of them to be a running gage. I'll give it some thought and let you know.I could donate it to the cause..

Doug
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R Moore
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug LaRock wrote:
Bob, good to hear of all your hard work. Hope you break the record next year.

I've been building some line pull gages. I believe I could modify one of them to be a running gage. I'll give it some thought and let you know.I could donate it to the cause..

Doug

Doug, that is a very kind offer and is greatly appreciated. I have been playing around with various home built devices for several years but can never get to usable version that doesn't somehow pose a risk for line damage if malfunction or isn't a bit cumbersome. I never seem to get several days contiguious time to get things finished properly. Thanks again.

Regards,

Bob
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mototrev
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Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done Bob .
Is 702 radio abc national or local?
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powder_pig
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mototrev wrote:
Well done Bob .
Is 702 radio abc national or local?


National or local to OZ or the US?
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Ron

It's sunny and windy in the summer and cold and snowy in the winter...this must be what heaven is like.
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R Moore
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mototrev wrote:
Well done Bob .
Is 702 radio abc national or local?

ABC 702 is labelled as a Sydney region AM local radio station but is broadcast from Sydney studios across NSW regional stations and Nationally (I think) as I often hear listeners call from other states. The program is "Evenings with Robbie Buck", formerly on Triple J for years, Robbie seems intrigued by the kite record attempts. It is also pod cast and streamed live online I think. He followed the record attempts last year.

Bob
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reynolds5520
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So close, so very close, you will get there. I am sure of it.
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KiteSquid
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW you are getting close!!!!!!

Keep trying!!!!!

I might have an idea to improve the kite to give it a more consistent pull, and more importantly a maximum pull on the line, but I need some more info.


how cold does it getup there??????? would some materials become unusable due to freezing temperatures?



I am happy that you took my advice and started using a Dunton-Taylor Fast Climber kite for these attempts.
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PS Yet another post by the Squid... Shocked Doesn’t he ever shut up?
PPS The wind is like the air, only pushier.
PPPS All information provided is for hobby use. None may be used commercially.
PPPPS Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur. x11.5K
PPPPPS Please excuse my speling errorors.
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R Moore
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KiteSquid wrote:
WOW you are getting close!!!!!!

Keep trying!!!!!

I might have an idea to improve the kite to give it a more consistent pull, and more importantly a maximum pull on the line, but I need some more info.


how cold does it getup there??????? would some materials become unusable due to freezing temperatures?



I am happy that you took my advice and started using a Dunton-Taylor Fast Climber kite for these attempts.

I'd be glad to look at some new ideas. Bear in mind any current design is to some degree a compromise unless there is some way of dynamically varying the kite dimensions, angle of attack, spreader stiffness and wing spar stiffness to cater for variations in wind speed and air density. Some sort of automatic system, either mechanic, electro-mechanical or electro-pneumatic, perhaps with micro processor control could be developed. It may sound a bit far fetched but a fly-by-wire kite is not science fiction. I guess cost may be prohibitive. I looked at the wind data again last night and the 120 sq ft kite was flying in 59 knot winds at 12,700 ft. This is very impressive for a big kite that will also fly in 5 knot winds. Mind you it wasn't flying well and it's wings were bent way back with with heaps of drag and about half effective lift area.
Our kites are about 40% the size of the Synergy record delta but achieved almost the same height. Richard Synergy had a complex and heavy angle of attack device which limited the maximum pull generated to 100 lbs. I don't see the point of building a massive 270 sq ft delta then restricting it's lift because you're either too scared of breaking the kite or breaking the line. It's kind of like a V8 with 4 spark plugs removed with all the weight but not the power.
Richard Crawford, who has been trying with a large delta in Wyominghttp://www.twinline.org/photos_public/pages/record_breaker%202.php has a variable lift device. On his first attempt the spreader snapped while the kite was at 6,500 ft. In many ways the fiberglass spars do provide an automatic way of adapting to wind conditions but ideally we need a way of changing spar & spreader stiffness dynamically. Anything that is developed would need to be light as every lb takes about 250 ft or so off the maximum altitude. I have experimented with elastic bridles but never really pursued these to the nth degree. We have a Carbon version of the big kite but the builder, Mike Richards, is not confident it would stand up to the battering the FG kite withstood last Friday. He expects the Carbon spars would have shattered. I wish I could have taken a photo of the kite at 12,700 ft. It's shape and distress was unbelievable yet it was still flying. The kite didn't break but the line did.
The temp at 14,121 was about -8 deg C. Avia Sports tech guy says that FG loses flexibility at low temps but I don't know exactly how much. Line is good to sub -50 deg. The electronics and batteries are protected inside styrofoam enclosures and are self warming to some degree but without temp module it is hard to say what the temperature may have been. Telemetry GPS and Garmin GPS worked fine. Battery voltage remained constant. Strobe light was clearly visible from 5,000 ft.

Bob Moore
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KiteSquid
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have in mind a SIMPLE, lightweight mechanical system to adjust the bridle dynamically to limit the pull by changing the Angle of Attack of the kite.

What is the minimum expected air temp at that altitude???


What size and type of tube do you use in the longeron in the front of the cell???? this is the longeron that the bridle connects to....
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KiteSquid AKA TakoIka AKA Harold of King George VA
PS Yet another post by the Squid... Shocked Doesn’t he ever shut up?
PPS The wind is like the air, only pushier.
PPPS All information provided is for hobby use. None may be used commercially.
PPPPS Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur. x11.5K
PPPPPS Please excuse my speling errorors.
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