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wdrwilson



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 1691
Location: Canada, Nova Scotia, Halifax

PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich and Russ,

Are the edges of the circle hemmed or edge bound? did you hem the inner circle as well?

--Bill
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Russ Mozier



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 440
Location: Christmas, FL

PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:12 am    Post subject: Hems Reply with quote

I didn't hem any edges, but it hasn't been flown either. I don't remember Lee's being hemmed. I hot cut the Ripstop from a cardboard pattern Lee sent me. The pattern he sent was for one half and was marked for the seam allowances but had no notations for hem allowances.
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wdrwilson



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 1691
Location: Canada, Nova Scotia, Halifax

PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Russ!
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woodpekr



Joined: 25 Nov 2003
Posts: 864
Location: USA Oregon Portland

PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wdrwilson wrote:
Are the edges of the circle hemmed or edge bound? did you hem the inner circle as well? --Bill


I hot cut the outside edges and the vent. (used the biggest pot lid we have). I've been pretty rough with thls kite and the sail looks great. The ring protects the outside edges. I noticed nicks appearing in the edge of the vent. Looks like they were caused by the snap swivel that I was using. The snap had a bit of wire projecting at a right angle. I switched to a snap swivel that has no little bits of wire hanging out and I don't seem to have any more new nicks.

Lee Sedgwiicks UFO's were hot cut too.
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Last edited by woodpekr on Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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woodpekr



Joined: 25 Nov 2003
Posts: 864
Location: USA Oregon Portland

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:24 am    Post subject: Bridling attempt 1 Reply with quote

I tried bridling at 3 points. 330, 30, and 180 degrees also 300, 60, and 180 degrees. The steup with the top two closer together was more stable but neither was satisfactory. I tried a couple different tails too. I tried the tow point in several different places . . .

I also tried a 4 point bridle 330, 30, 210, 150 degrees and 300, 60, 240, 120 degrees this was better tha the 3 point bridle but I still can't get it to behave even with a tail. 330, 30, 210, 150 was the more stable of the two.

With both 3 and 4 point bridles the circular kite frame was bending enough to make me think that I need a bigger vent hole. If you compare my version to Lee's my vent is proportionally smaller (guess I need a bigger pot lid).

After some thought I decided to fly it in a similar manner to flying from the wand. Two points on the leading edge. 30, 330 is more stable than 60, 300.

I used a 35 foot plastic tube tail. The kite flew surprisingly well. It flies very flat (almost parallel to the ground) when you pump the line, on the slack cycle the tail pulls the kite towards vertical and it climbs quite easily. It you give a hard tug while flying it will stall start to come down and then right itself to float back up. The times that it came all the way down it easily self launched with a couple light tugs.

The winds while doing this were 5 to 7 mph so I need to try all of this on a lighter wind day.

This is all I have for my 1st bridling attempt of this thing I'll add more as I make more attempts.

My next try will start with what I have working now. I'll add a third leg at 180 degrees and try to bring the nose up a little bit.
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wdrwilson



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 1691
Location: Canada, Nova Scotia, Halifax

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rich,

Good info on the bridle...

I am a bit confused though.. In your first attempt with the 3 point bridle you used 330 (11 O'Clock) to 30 (1 O'Clock), then from the mid point of this line to 180 (6 O'Clock). Is that correct? Similar to how the della Porta is bridled, right?

The most successful bridle was a line from 330 (11 O'Clock) to 30 (1 O'Clock) and a tow point in the middle of this line. Is this line fairly short like the wanded bridle or is it long so that it comes to a sharp point at the tow point position a number of inches from the sail skin?

Quote:

My next try will start with what I have working now. I'll add a third leg at 180 degrees and try to bring the nose up a little bit.


If you add a third leg to this bridle to 180 (6 O'Clock) is that the same as the first configuration?

Have you tried it as a quad yet? Cool Laughing

I've got my template cut from Tyvek, now I just have to transfer it to poster board.. Very Happy

--Bill
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woodpekr



Joined: 25 Nov 2003
Posts: 864
Location: USA Oregon Portland

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wdrwilson wrote:

I am a bit confused though.. In your first attempt with the 3 point bridle you used 330 (11 O'Clock) to 30 (1 O'Clock), then from the mid point of this line to 180 (6 O'Clock). Is that correct? Similar to how the della Porta is bridled, right?

Correct

wdrwilson wrote:

The most successful bridle was a line from 330 (11 O'Clock) to 30 (1 O'Clock) and a tow point in the middle of this line. Is this line fairly short like the wanded bridle or is it long so that it comes to a sharp point at the tow point position a number of inches from the sail skin?

It's longer so that it comes to a sharp point at the tow point position about 12 inches from the leading edge.
Bridled like this it doesn't matter whiich side of the kite is to the wind . . .

wdrwilson wrote:

If you add a third leg to this bridle to 180 (6 O'Clock) is that the same as the first configuration?

No. I want try the tow point out in front of the leading edge.
In the first attempt it was in front of the face of the kite.

wdrwilson wrote:

Have you tried it as a quad yet? Cool Laughing

Not yet. I ran out of time. I'm sure that it will work so I'm saving it for last.

wdrwilson wrote:

I've got my template cut from Tyvek, now I just have to transfer it to poster board.. Very Happy


Great! This is really a fun kite. I was outside almost all day on saturday with it using the wand in zero wind conditions.
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wdrwilson



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 1691
Location: Canada, Nova Scotia, Halifax

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rich,

Thanks for bringing up this cool kite...

SO after finally getting templates cut tonight I was on my way Very Happy Very Happy

After a couple of hours here is the result...



Had it out in the front yard in the dark.. had a blast.. well except when it swung around and hit me in the head on a sharp wrist-snap-return Embarassed ..

That'll learn me to fly kites in the dark Shocked Confused Laughing

Here are the particulars...

3 x 48" 1/8" Carbon rods and Ferrels (stolen from my Circoflex from OKR 2004)
1.2 m of fabric
The pattern is 45" wide and the tabs extend out 7/16" from the edge of the points. This gives a nice snug fit on the 45 7/8" Carbon circle.

The center hole is 1/3 the width of the kite at 15".

The scalloped edge was created using a thin Carbon rod like a bow setter. I just adjusted it until I saw what I thought it should look like. not too deep and not too shallow.

--Bill
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Russ Mozier



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 440
Location: Christmas, FL

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:43 pm    Post subject: Graphics Reply with quote

Great kite Bill. I like the idea of using asymetric graphics. The colors on both of mine are symetrical, two colors in 90 degre segments. I think this is going to make it difficult to see where the top is when flying as a quad. I think I'll add a little applique, maybe an arrow pointing up or something like that.
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woodpekr



Joined: 25 Nov 2003
Posts: 864
Location: USA Oregon Portland

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks great bill! That is a wonderful use of color!

What did you use for a template to cut the center hole? I think the 1/3 proportion looks "right".

I added some simple grapics to my rang thang so I can keep track of it's orientation in flight. I've whacked myself with this kite a number of times now so I'm getting really good at ducking. Lukily it doesnt have much mass so not much harm can be done.

Click on the thumbnail for a better look. I'm across the street from where the OKR is held every year. Spectacular weather for December in Oregon.

I made a better wand using 1/4" Carbon rod with a brass bushing glued to each end to keep the line from cutting the Carbon. It's MUCH better than PVC pipe. Still needs a foam handle though.
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Rich Durant
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CJQ
Grand Champion, Kitebuilder of the Year 2006
Grand Champion,  Kitebuilder of the Year 2006


Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 4539
Location: Coopersburg, PA - USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:03 pm    Post subject: Big Rocks/ Rang Tang Reply with quote

Hi Rich , I was impressed with your Thing and also Very impressed with the beach photo. Steve , my wife Joyce and I were on that very same spot and took pic's. of the two famous Rocks. Man that brings back some good memory's. You are so lucky. How close is that to the OKR workshop??

CLIFF
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wdrwilson



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 1691
Location: Canada, Nova Scotia, Halifax

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodpekr wrote:
Looks great bill! That is a wonderful use of color!

What did you use for a template to cut the center hole? I think the 1/3 proportion looks "right".


I made a half circle pattern that contained the 15" half circle as well. I then folded the fabric in half and butted the edge of the pattern to the fold. (the same as cutting a skin for a fighter) I hot cut the around the pattern and then separated (carefully Smile )

woodpekr wrote:

I added some simple grapics to my rang thang so I can keep track of it's orientation in flight. I've whacked myself with this kite a number of times now so I'm getting really good at ducking. Lukily it doesnt have much mass so not much harm can be done.


Ya it's really light and it has a little bounce to it as well. It also makes a great frisbee.. we have been playing here at the office today Very Happy

woodpekr wrote:


Click on the thumbnail for a better look. I'm across the street from where the OKR is held every year. Spectacular weather for December in Oregon.

I made a better wand using 1/4" <a href="http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=33">Carbon</a> rod with a brass bushing glued to each end to keep the line from cutting the <a href="http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=33">Carbon</a>. It's MUCH better than PVC pipe. Still needs a foam handle though.


Beautiful photo Rich... I like the additions to the sail as well. I am going to try flying it as a quad today... Very Happy Very Happy

--Bill
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wdrwilson



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 1691
Location: Canada, Nova Scotia, Halifax

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Graphics Reply with quote

Russ Mozier wrote:
Great kite Bill. I like the idea of using asymetric graphics. The colors on both of mine are symetrical, two colors in 90 degre segments. I think this is going to make it difficult to see where the top is when flying as a quad. I think I'll add a little applique, maybe an arrow pointing up or something like that.


Thanks Russ.. Very Happy I wanted to keep it simple but still have a splash of color. I have been fighting my natural tendancy to make things symetrical. you know 3 roses look better than 2, 7 better than 6, etc. so filling 3/24 ths of the sail with color is just right. I think I will make another that has a little different pattern and I will reduce the thickness of the black line that runs between the colors...

--Bill
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woodpekr



Joined: 25 Nov 2003
Posts: 864
Location: USA Oregon Portland

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Big Rocks/ Rang Tang Reply with quote

CJQ wrote:
How close is that to the OKR workshop??
CLIFF

It's 10 or 15 minute walk. From the Friends Camp you cross Hiway 101, a two lane hiway. Walk north a couple hundred yards. West across the railroad tracks. 30 yards to the beach.
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Rich Durant
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wdrwilson



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 1691
Location: Canada, Nova Scotia, Halifax

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK so I went and tried the kite as a quad today (couldn't resist)... Wow it is pretty difficult to tell which end is up Very Happy Very Happy... I took a 50 ft lineset from my HQ hypnotic quad and had good results... There was very little wind so a shorter lineset would have been perfect. Even with very little wind it flew!

Here are some photos...



The rest of the photos are here...
http://www.steadywinds.com/gal/yfo

What a beautiful day.. the grass is still green and the Halifax sky line looks great today Very Happy

Cheers,
Bill
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woodpekr



Joined: 25 Nov 2003
Posts: 864
Location: USA Oregon Portland

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wdrwilson wrote:
OK so I went and tried the kite as a quad today (couldn't resist)... Wow it is pretty difficult to tell which end is up Very Happy Very Happy... I took a 50 ft lineset from my HQ hypnotic quad and had good results... There was very little wind so a shorter lineset would have been perfect. Even with very little wind it flew!
Cheers,
Bill


Cool! What kind of handles are you using Bill?

I'm going to give it a try as a quad this weekend with 15" throw handles.

Have you tried it as a single line yet?
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wdrwilson



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 1691
Location: Canada, Nova Scotia, Halifax

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodpekr wrote:

Cool! What kind of handles are you using Bill?

I'm going to give it a try as a quad this weekend with 15" throw handles.

Have you tried it as a single line yet?


Today they were just the short ones that came with my hypnotic quad (read short-ones). I have a set of ultra light Rev handles that have a longer throw and I plan on trying them when there is a little more wind.

I am also trying to think of the best place to attach the lines. Today I used 90 degree separation between the upper tow points and 90 degrees between the lower. I think I need to widen it a bit, but I need to experiment.

There was very little wind and turning was a bit of a chore and a little unpredictable. I think if there is a wider stance on the attacment points I may be able to get more control over the sail in turns. How is the one that Lee had at convention configured?

--Bill
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woodpekr



Joined: 25 Nov 2003
Posts: 864
Location: USA Oregon Portland

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wdrwilson wrote:
Today I used 90 degree separation between the upper tow points and 90 degrees between the lower. I think I need to widen it a bit, but I need to experiment.

There was very little wind and turning was a bit of a chore and a little unpredictable. I think if there is a wider stance on the attacment points I may be able to get more control over the sail in turns. How is the one that Lee had at convention configured?

--Bill


I don't remember the spacing . . . his handles are unusual in that they have a long throw and they fold in half, so while you're flying you can actually change the gap from top to bottom. I never had the chance to ask why he didn't use a fixed handle.
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jamescrumley



Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 147
Location: USA Oregon Gold Beach

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:21 pm    Post subject: Rang Thang Reply with quote

This subject is becoming interesting and a challenge. I spent some time drawing a pattern and had settled on an 11-panel kite with an arrow pointing upward. 11 panels was to make it symmetrical with color combinations. Then Bill's photo changed all that planning. Now the goal is to make one of a single color except for the arrow. That will be much less sewing.

Before this project I have several stunt kites to make for delayed Christmas gifts but when that project is completed the Ring is next on the list.

Bill, I shall be interested in your bridling system. I will be starting from scratch with the handles so if you have some suggestion, it would be welcome.

Merry Christmas to all of you people who watch this forum and who share with the rest of us.

Jim
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woodpekr



Joined: 25 Nov 2003
Posts: 864
Location: USA Oregon Portland

PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:14 am    Post subject: Solution for scuffing the Tabs Reply with quote

I think I've solved the problem of scuffing the tabs . . . o-rings . . . get o-rings sized so that when you squeeze the sides together, the length is a bit longer than the tab is wide. Push the o-ring through the tab, Slide the Carbon rod through the loops (formed by the o-ring) on either side of the tab. The tab is now inside the ring. The Carbon rod will protect the edge of the tab. If you wear out the o-ring it's easily replaced. I'm favoring this over the velcro because I though the line and other stuff might get caught in it. If it doesn't work out though I'll be trying velcro next.

Click on the thumbnail for a closer look

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