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Snoopy



Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 57
Location: USA CT Milford

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:32 pm    Post subject: Curved top banner Reply with quote

I want to make a banner with a half round top, about 2 ft wide x 7 ft high (picture a tongue depressor or popsicle stick). The question is how do I make the sleeve for the rod where it goes around the arc?
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Larry
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Dorsal
Kite Builder II
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Joined: 05 Oct 2003
Posts: 735
Location: USA California Tracy - 50 miles to the right of San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry -
I presume you are going to use something like 1/8" fiberglass rod around the top??
If so, I'd probably cut the top of the banner to the finished shape. Then I'd fold a 1" wide piece of material on half, and sew that over the curved section, using a straight stitch about 1/8" from the open edges of the folded piece, to make a pocket like the leading edges of a dualline kite, but smaller. I'd leave the last 1 inch or so unsewn, at both ends of the curve, and then fold the edging material back under and sew it across the end. That way, you'll have a 1" wide area to slip the rod in from one end, push it around until it seats against the far end, then trim the rod so it is just short enough to let the last end slip into the last pocket. Hope that makes sense.
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Grant L
Kite of the Year 2004
Kite of the Year 2004


Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 2929
Location: USA IN Indianapolis

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was sewing the edge onto "SmoochyPuss," I had a heck of a time sewing the edge around the curve without it puckering. When I built the angel plays kite in Robert Brasingtons class, he showed how to do the leading edge in a really cool way. We folded the leading edge material in half and then sewed it to the front side of the leading edge, ( the two edges of the pocket material even with the edge of the sail.) Then we folded the raw edges to the back of the kite and sewed the edge down to the kite sail. It was much easier to get the pocket material nice and smooth this way. The pocket material on the angel kite is narrow and this may make a difference. You might experiment on a scrap piece and see if it works


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Dorsal
Kite Builder II
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Joined: 05 Oct 2003
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Location: USA California Tracy - 50 miles to the right of San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, well if going around the curve is a problem, you could always use some of KiteStudio's Herringbone Edge Binding material. It works very well. Smile
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EBGB
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Joined: 29 Nov 2003
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Location: USA Washington Kent

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you'll need to run the rod parallel to the pole pocket for some distance in order to give it some support. If the rod pocket is just added on to the end, it's going to flop over to one side.

Have you given any thought how you're going to do your pole pocket?
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TS



Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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Location: England

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I've made a few banners with half curved tops. Here is one of them:



I used Ripstop for the sail and a heavy weight nylon for the sleeve. I got this heavy weight material for quite a cheap price at a local material shop. It seems to sew around the corner quite well - not as good as biased binding, but good enough for a banner!!

I use a fishing pole that tapers off at the end as the rod. This goes around the curve well. Just reinforce the end well to stop the rod popping through.

-Dave
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Snoopy



Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 57
Location: USA CT Milford

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EBGB wrote:
I think you'll need to run the rod parallel to the pole pocket for some distance in order to give it some support. If the rod pocket is just added on to the end, it's going to flop over to one side.

Have you given any thought how you're going to do your pole pocket?


That part I have under control, the thin rod will have a long leg that will go into the telescoping pole. On my mockup, it is about 2 1/2 ft long at the tangent point, so it should support well. I may have to fat it up some to fit the i.d. of the pole.

This banner is for my Special Olympics group, the idea is to carry it as a flag during the athletes entrance at the opening ceremonies, then be the focal point of our assembly area at the aquatics venue. Being self supporting, it won't need wind to keep it open. All the applique and logos are symetrical, so it has no wrong side.

Thanks for the help so far, I figured that this was the best place to get answers, as someone has had to solve this before.
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mhartzel



Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 959
Location: USA, Michigan, Fraser

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TS makes a good point...
What about having a sleeve around half of the curve at the top. That should hold it open enough to be read.
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EBGB
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Joined: 29 Nov 2003
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Location: USA Washington Kent

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snoopy wrote:
That part I have under control, the thin rod will have a long leg that will go into the telescoping pole. On my mockup, it is about 2 1/2 ft long at the tangent point, so it should support well. I may have to fat it up some to fit the i.d. of the pole.

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Gotcha...

So the sleeve for the top rod needs to be an extension of the pole sleeve.

If your pole sleeve is going to be a separate piece of fabric (tapered?), just continue it around the top like TS shows in his picture and discussed above.
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Snoopy



Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 57
Location: USA CT Milford

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:00 pm    Post subject: I finished the banner Reply with quote

Thanks for all the help. I finally finished it about 2 hours before the opening ceremonies last week.
I wound up with a 1/2 inch sleeve along the curve [12 inch radius], and after trial and error, drew radial lines every 2 inches on the circumference. This allowed me to fold in the hem evenly one point at a time, basting at each mark, then going back and sewing the seam, pleating the hem between the bastes. The crotch of the Seam Ripper was handy for making the pleat, catch the hem and fold by turning, made sure to orient in the direction that the rod would go in so as not to catch in a fold.
The 'applique' is Insignia Cloth. The M O M stands for 'Milford Operation Mainstream', our Special Olympics team. The graphic in the center of the O is the Special Olympics logo, the sports graphics are the events our group compete in: Aquatics, Track and Field, Bowling, and Alpine Skiing.
The reason for the arch top was to hold the banner open indoors.
http://www.kitebuilder.com/forums/album_pic.php?pic_id=2544
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Russell
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Joined: 21 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great work. I'm sure it was enjoyed at the event.

Russell
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rudeboysaude



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I'm no wizard at sewing..

I wanted to make a curved top banner also so I thought I'd make a small one out of scraps and see how it went. Not too good on the curve.

I sewed the pole sleeve straight and thought I could tuck and sew here and there. Apparently I don't know what I'm doing and I got some ugly folds along the sleeve and it seems to have distorted the lay of the fabric on the banner.

Is it better to cut the sleeve the same arc as the banner or is there some special way of attaching the sleeve to the banner so those folds are less apparent?

I appreciate any help or advice anyone can lend. Great forum and my brain is getting fuller by the minute!

Aaron.
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CJQ
Grand Champion, Kitebuilder of the Year 2006
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Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 4537
Location: Coopersburg, PA - USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Aaron, It was good that you did a test peice to experience the methods you will need making the full size banner.As you explain it sounds like the curved edge was much smaller radius than the final banner you will make. The tighter the radius the more difficult it is to form the curve. The good news is the final banner will be easier. However that's not to say the puckering or distortion will go away completely. There are some tricks to use to make the outcome better. First I assume you are using Ripstop nylon. RSN has small reenforcement threads forming tiny squares, yes ?. If you cut strips in a straight line along those threads and fold those strips in half to put over the banner edge, pucker will occure. If you cut strips at a 45 degree angle across those tiny squares and fold those strips in half these diagonal cut strips will form much better on a radius. The trade-off is you may waste a lot of fabric cutting the fabric on the diagonal. Some people use bias tape bought in a sewing supply store. It's not RSN but it's soft and when folded it will conture without pucker or bulging.Will it last as long as RSN, probably. By the time the bias tape fails the banner will be faded and beat up won't look good and needs replacing anyway. So , some people use the bias tape ,some rather than having a curved top will use a straight angled edge. I prefer a curved edge. I have cut strips of 1 1/2 oz RSN (on the straight) folded the strips in half with a good crease and then place the folded strips between my two thumbs and index fingers and force bend the edging every inch or two , This will streach the folded side and put a pre-curve in the edging. The 1 1/2 oz material tends to yeild better than the 3/4 oz RSN. The heaver fabric will also take more of a beating. The 4 oz. dacron you used for the pole pocket is NOT a good choice for going around a curve. Just remember the larger the curve the easier the sew. Hope this helps.

CLIFF
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kiteguy
Kitebuilder of the Year 2005
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Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 8375
Location: USA - Kansas, Overland Park - Near Kansas City

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CJQ wrote:
If you cut strips at a 45 degree angle across those tiny squares and fold those strips in half these diagonal cut strips will form much better on a radius. The trade-off is you may waste a lot of fabric cutting the fabric on the diagonal. Some people use bias tape bought in a sewing supply store. It's not R

CLIFF


Well, dang it.... While waiting to go to OKR in January I visited a couple of kitebuilders. They taught me a way to make bias tape from Ripstop cut on an angle and there is NO waste.

I swear, I will put the method online once I have time from my world travels and prep time for the MAKR class. (Maybe I bit off more than I can chew?) It is a method that needs pictures and photos as I am not good enough to put the entire process into words and make it understood. Embarassed

I swear I will.......... Wink
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jdc



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 42
Location: FRANCE, Strasbourg

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello All,

It makes a long time that I did not post a message on this forum, but those which wish to build their bias tape can go to see the following URL (sorry the page is in French but the images are comprehensible)

bias tape

Regards
jdc
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CJQ
Grand Champion, Kitebuilder of the Year 2006
Grand Champion,  Kitebuilder of the Year 2006


Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 4537
Location: Coopersburg, PA - USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello JDC, thank you for the link showing the process. I didn't convert thewords to english ,but the pictures told the story. Mr. Ellis , you promised so dont let us down.

CLIFF
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KiteSquid
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Location: USA Virginia King George

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HERE is one in English
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kiteguy
Kitebuilder of the Year 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhhhh... Delay long enough and you will be rewarded! Wink

The link posted by JDC shows exactly what I had been taught.
Not only that, but the French site explains it more clearly than I probably would have!! However, the site posted by KS makes it more easily read, for me. I can read only 6 words in French. Embarassed
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The Wizard



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
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Location: Kingsville, ON, Canada (ex-pat Brit)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kiteguy wrote:
I can read only 6 words in French. Embarassed


Vont la mouche un cerf-volant aujourd'hui

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mhartzel



Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 959
Location: USA, Michigan, Fraser

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds like a great idea...

thank you google Wink
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