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KiteSquid
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 10131
Location: USA Virginia King George
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 Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Texy wrote: | One other thing (for now!).
The rok I am building will be 5ft high, so 4ft wide.
This means that I could make the sail out of a single piece
of Rip stop instead of sewing the 4 triangular pieces to the rectangular
piece.
Is that OK?
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Sure, as long as it flys it is a kite....
_________________
VR/
KiteSquid
AKA TakoIka
AKA Harold
King George VA
PS Yet another post by the Squid...  Doesn’t he ever shut up?
PPS The wind is like the air, only pushier.
PPPS All information provided is for hobby use. None may be used commercially.
PPPPS Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur. x10K
PPPPPS Please excuse my speling errorors. |
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Texy
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 18
Location: Newbury, England
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| KiteSquid wrote: | | Sure, as long as it flys it is a kite.... |
LOL - I wont know that until after its built - too late then 
Anyway, I have found other examples of rok's built with a single piece
on this website, so I guess its ok!
Thanks,
Texy |
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Texy
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 18
Location: Newbury, England
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| KiteSquid wrote: | | Texy wrote: |
I understand what you are saying. The hollow dacron will flatten, causing more surface area to make contact with the cf, which in turn grips it better.
Not too sure if I,ll be able to get hold of the hollow dacron in the UK easily. |
You already have some hollow core dacron... Just remove the core from the line you have...... Yes it is a waste but you alreay have some line...
| Texy wrote: | | I guess it would be a cardinal sin to drill a small hole in the cf tube to feed the bow line through? 1 because of the weekening of the tube and 2 because the hole edge will damage the line as its very abrasive when cut. |
I have done this with SS P300 tubes... I reinforce the area by epoxying a short lenght of 0.240" <a href="http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=33">Carbon</a> tube insde the SS tube.
Then drill a hole using a dental burr that is just bigger than the line you want to use for the bow line.
then I uses a very small amout of THIN CA adhesive to wick into the <a href="http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=33">Carbon</a> tubes to lock the fibers together and to smooth the inside of the hole...
But over time the bow line will get cut...
It is a VERY elegenat solution and earns lots of craftsmanship points as it is quite fiddley..
I would not do it on any kite I was not going to enter into competion with, as it takes WAY too much effort and time.... |
I have tried removing the core of the sleeved dacron, and I have also used beeswax furniture polish on the line. Both helped, but I am still not convinced it would hold enough in the air. I then sanded down the cf tube to take the shine off, and this has helped a little more.
I am now considering sewing dacron or Webbing loops in the horizontal pockets to tie the bow line to instead of directly to the spar.
Any opinions on this would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Texy |
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kiteguy
Kitebuilder of the Year 2005
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 6652
Location: USA - Kansas, Overland Park - Near Kansas City
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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I have made rokokku kites, the size you mention, from one piece of Ripstop, and they fly fine.
I have also pierced the Webbing with a soldering iron at the edge just where the rod is inserted. That is where I put the bow line. It worked fine.
I also attached a long piece of line one side of the cross spar, but not as long as the spar. I melted the end of the line to form a blob, but an overhand knot would do the same thing. I attached a small piece, about 1 ft long, on the other side. I tied a loop on the free end of the short piece. Then I used a larkshead knot to fasten the loop around the free end of the longer piece.Then I could grab the free end, and slide the larkshead down the longer line inducing a bow in the spar. Beeswax kept the knot from slipping, and it held as long as I was willing to fly the kite. Easy to slip back to release tension at the end of the flying session.
_________________
Dave Ellis
Kites + Kids = Education
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Texy
Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 18
Location: Newbury, England
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Thats great info Dave - thanks!
As the kite is still in the planning stage, I could sew in an extra Webbing loop at the pockets. Alternatively I could melt a hole in the pocket Webbing as you suggest, but what is you opinion on eyelets? Maplins over here (the UK equivalent of Radio Shack over there) has a very nice eyelet tool and 100 brass eyelets for £2.99 (about $5), that I could use for this, and also the holes for the bride lines to pass through the sail.
Cheers,
Texy |
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KiteSquid
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 10131
Location: USA Virginia King George
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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My problem with using any metal on a kite is they all oxidize.
This can transfer to your sail in a stain.....
Especially if you fly you kites in ocean breezes....
Also I once set a gromet to tight and it cut a hole in the sail, so I usualy just reinforce with 3.9 Oz Polyester or the Mylar backed tafata, and hot cut/weld a hole in the sail.
_________________
VR/
KiteSquid
AKA TakoIka
AKA Harold
King George VA
PS Yet another post by the Squid... Doesn’t he ever shut up?
PPS The wind is like the air, only pushier.
PPPS All information provided is for hobby use. None may be used commercially.
PPPPS Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur. x10K
PPPPPS Please excuse my speling errorors. |
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kiteguy
Kitebuilder of the Year 2005
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 6652
Location: USA - Kansas, Overland Park - Near Kansas City
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:12 am Post subject: |
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I agree with KiteSquid. The eyelets are a spot for trouble. Usually at a very bad time, often after just a realitivity short time.
Between eyelets and grommets, I choose the latter. Between grommets and melted holes like KS described, I choose the latter. A sewn in loop at the point where the pockets are have been put to good use, as well. The prussic knots attached directly towards the end of the cross spar have a lot in their favor.
I learned to tie the second Prussic knot without doing the inhand version that KS and Gary Engvall have described. I am currently trying to figure how to explain it on the forum. It is easy to show in person, but putting it to pen and paper along with photos has me puzzled. One of these days.....
Oh, by the way, none of the eyelets/other suggestions are the "correct" method. Just things that people have done, and do. Try a couple and pick your own favorite "correct" method. 
_________________
Dave Ellis
Kites + Kids = Education
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KiteSquid
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 10131
Location: USA Virginia King George
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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YUP we all learn from our mistakes or problems. But a better way to learn is from the wisdom of otheres.
That is why this fourm is so popular. I want to learn from you and vice versa.
All,
Thanks for your posts here at the BEST kite Builiding forum!!!!!!!!
_________________
VR/
KiteSquid
AKA TakoIka
AKA Harold
King George VA
PS Yet another post by the Squid... Doesn’t he ever shut up?
PPS The wind is like the air, only pushier.
PPPS All information provided is for hobby use. None may be used commercially.
PPPPS Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur. x10K
PPPPPS Please excuse my speling errorors. |
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jamescrumley
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 146
Location: USA Oregon Gold Beach
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:46 am Post subject: prussic knot for rok bow |
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Mount a short piece of dowel horizontally in a vice. Tie a prussic knot with a loop of line as you are used to doing. Then with a second piece of line carefully follow the pattern as you wrap the line around the dowel. It may take you several attempts to get the knot right but once you do get it you will find it is very simple. This is a good exercise in "following directions" only this time you have a "non-printed" direction.
Have lotsa fun trying it.
Jim |
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KiteSquid
Master Kite Builder
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 10131
Location: USA Virginia King George
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Several Attempts, will probally be several HUNDRED attempts for me....
I am thick headed sometimess...
But that sounds like a great thing to practice on a dark and stormy night....
_________________
VR/
KiteSquid
AKA TakoIka
AKA Harold
King George VA
PS Yet another post by the Squid... Doesn’t he ever shut up?
PPS The wind is like the air, only pushier.
PPPS All information provided is for hobby use. None may be used commercially.
PPPPS Vir sapit qui pauca loquitur. x10K
PPPPPS Please excuse my speling errorors. |
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