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Jimbo
Kitebuilder of the Year 2007
Kitebuilder of the Year 2007


Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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Location: California desert

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:20 pm    Post subject: Crown kite Reply with quote

Does anyone happen to know the diameter of this kite?



Also how it was broken down and bagged?

Any info about it, or any others like it, would be cool Very Happy

Jimbo-
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Progcraft
Kitebuilder of the Year 2004
Kitebuilder of the Year 2004


Joined: 29 Sep 2003
Posts: 4963
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This kite was talked about a little bit here: http://www.kitebuilder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2164&highlight=alexander+bell
Not much info, but lots of pictures.

P
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Jimbo
Kitebuilder of the Year 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Prog, that helped a bunch Very Happy

They make em pretty big, lol.
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Russ Mozier



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 443
Location: Christmas, FL

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Contact Pete Dolphin, past president of the AKA. He has built 2 of these.
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stevef
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Joined: 27 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete built three of these kites, the Moon above, the Sun, and the American Flag.

There are two versions of this kite/fitting. And the diameter depends on the the length of the spar.

The 12 segment, 30 degree angle circle requires:

24 - 5 hole fittings to go around the inside of the circle top & bottom
24 - 3 hole fittings to go around the outside of the circle top & bottom
60 sticks of whatever size & length you choose

The 15 segment, 24 degree angle circle requires:

30 - 5 hole fittings to go around the inside of the circle top & bottom
30 - 3 hole fittings to go around the outside of the circle top & bottom
75 sticks of whatever size & length you choose

THe length of all spars is the same*. I am pretty sure Pete used our old Fucsia colored Graphite/Fiberglass combo tubes that we discontinued several years ago. They were 32.5", The Moon Kite above is 12 segments @ 30 degrees. So if the spars are 32.5", it would make the diameter a little over 10 feet.

Jimbo wrote:


Also how it was broken down and bagged?

Jimbo-


Laughing Pete takes ALL the sticks out and stuffs the rest in a bag! Yup, it takes a while to put together Laughing And if you're like Pete, each pannel is not sewn EXACTLY the same, so some are a little smaller that others.... *So, during assembly, the last spar is just a little too tight, so that one is cut a little shorter..... Wink
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Jimbo
Kitebuilder of the Year 2007
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Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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Location: California desert

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So we are talking about 15 feet overall width, WOW, thats a big kite Very Happy

If my math is right, thats 96 total spars. Not sure I can afford Carbon, so any opinions on fiberglass?



Still have a few changes to make, but nothing to tough.

I was concerned about the weight until now. At that size, it shouldnt matter much.

Jimbo-
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Quad Nut



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2587
Location: Massapequa, Long Island

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I've seen, I think the design is scalable to whatever you preferance.

I've seen those as big as 30 feet across.

IIRC - There was a 10 footer at the festival in Ashbury Park last year.


Cool
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Jimbo
Kitebuilder of the Year 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I have a fear that if I go to small, I'll end up too heavy due to the weight of so many fittings.

I could go with a really hard plastic, and reduce the size of the fittings, but I'm not sure how much flex I need to keep from breaking things.

But a 15 foot kite makes a statement Very Happy Not sure what statement, but it makes one...

Time to do some math I guess Wink
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stevef
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, that would make the outside diameter about 15 feet, which sounds about right based on my memory. Old man must have made a miscalculation somewhere on the stick requirement because after further inspection, I agree with your total number of spars at 96.

Looking good on the prototype fitting Jimbo, but you might want to add some holes for the sail connections. Pete used dacron lines with adjustable knots, but my old man's design uses a "positive" cord lock.

Dads fittings consist of two individual machined fittings that are screwed together. View them here:
http://www.kitebuilder.com/inventory/circle.htm

Pete's fittings come from Andre Cassagne. We have a sample black fitting for this kite and a two red fittings that I'm not sure how they are used, but they are all part of our Andre collection.







So what kind of graphics are you going to do? Wink
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Last edited by stevef on Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:55 pm; edited 5 times in total
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CJQ
Grand Champion, Kitebuilder of the Year 2006
Grand Champion,  Kitebuilder of the Year 2006


Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: Coopersburg, PA - USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Quad your right that ring kite was at Asbury park last year. It is owned by Pete Dalphin who lives in N.J. Its about a 10 footer. I have helped him assemble his rings on several ocasions. It takes one man about 30 to 45 minutes to put together. A little longer when the tension lines tangle when stored. The fittings are hard plastic. I would not recomend soft fittings. There was an older gent at the last AKA convention who made a Ring kite and competed with it. He made custom fittings out of a hard wood. I think white oak. He painted them red . I was surprised how well they work.

CLIFF
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Jimbo
Kitebuilder of the Year 2007
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Location: California desert

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My finished fittings will have webs between the sockets with holes for the sail pieces. But before I get into the detail work I wanted to make sure my method of creating the sockets was accurate and repeatable.

I just ordered a batch of hard urethane with a 2700 psi shear, and 2700 psi tension strength. Should be plenty tough enough.

As for the graphics, I'm thinking either a compass rose theme, or maybe a stained glass window theme. Maybe something from an old world church window? I'll give it time to simmer in the old noggin for a few days.

Jimbo-
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Pumpkin



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 7952
Location: Birmingham UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimbo
You don't do things by halves Very Happy
This is one super SLK to get the urge to build Shocked

Have fun and please keep us posted
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corgimas



Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 953
Location: massa-who-setts

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevef wrote:

Dads fittings consist of two individual machined fittings that are screwed together. View them here:
http://www.kitebuilder.com/inventory/circle.htm


So did Kevin Shannon or Cindy thrall ever make one???i do not remember seeing one...

rob

so is the rotating ring that is here in the US a cassagne original then?
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Jimbo
Kitebuilder of the Year 2007
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Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 1194
Location: California desert

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the pictures of those fittings, I assume the 6-way isnt used on this kite, and that the other red fitting has extra holes?

After seeing how small those are, I'm reducing the size of mine quite a bit as well Very Happy

Cliff, you wouldnt happen to remember how all the tension lines that hold the square openings in place attached would you?

The more I look, the more complexities I see Very Happy

I still havent figured out how I'll finish it. The living room is the only room big enough to assemble it in, lol.
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Progcraft
Kitebuilder of the Year 2004
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Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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Location: Calgary, AB, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Jimbo
If you hurry and build this kite, I could fly it for you at Beddeck on the same field where Bell flew his original Smile Smile
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Jimbo
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would make an incredible photo Very Happy

Whats the date?

I am about that crazy...
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stevef
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know, neither Cindy or Kevin ever made the kite.

--

Those red fittings are Andre Cassange products but I dont know what kind of kite he made with them..... I'll do more research.
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Last edited by stevef on Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stevef
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Lots of other photos here: An Hommage to Andre Cassagne

Here's a good photo of the three and five hole fittings. Note the different angles.


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Last edited by stevef on Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Progcraft
Kitebuilder of the Year 2004
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Joined: 29 Sep 2003
Posts: 4963
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimbo wrote:
That would make an incredible photo Very Happy

Whats the date?

I am about that crazy...


Smile
Aug 20, 21
It's right after the Dieppe festival, so I'll be leaving home on Aug 13
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Jimbo
Kitebuilder of the Year 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Steve, I appreciate the research, its a big help Very Happy

That is an awsome webpage too. Talk about incredible works of art.
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