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mototrev
Kitebuilder of the Year 2010
Kitebuilder of the Year 2010


Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 1547
Location: Melbourne, Australia.

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if Dave will like it? Red, White & blue! Applause
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Trev-(R)

As my wife often says: "Trev- Go fly a kite!
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DMF



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Halifax,NS

PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used insignia cloth for the reinforcement patches. They have a 3" radius. Does anyone sew this down or is the adhesive backing adequate?
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Fore Check
Grand Champion, Kite, & Kitebuilder of the Year 09
Grand Champion, Kite, & Kitebuilder of the Year 09


Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 3840
Location: The Montessori School of Kites (near Findlay, OH)

PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never used insignia cloth personally, but let me post my "thinking about it" thoughts before referring you to CJQ (Cliff) Laughing

Assuming that you are going to either hem or edge bind the perimeter of the sail, and further assuming that you applied the insignia cloth before doing the hemming or binding, the insignia cloth patches will get sewn to the sail when finishing the sail's edge. Then, if you're going to sew pockets, loops, velcro (or however you're going to attach the spars the sail corners) on tops of the insignia cloth, the patches will get further sewn to the sail when your attaching the spar-to-sail attachments. That leaves the only un-sewn edge to consider the inside radius of the patch itself. Personally, I'd run a triple zig zag or a single straight stitch there while I had it at the machine fiddling with the corner anyway, but that's just me.

That stitch that I'd run might not be necessary - hence me saying I'd refer you to Cliff ( Wink ) (I say that because his published plan for the Modified Cross Deck uses insignia cloth for corner reinforcements, although after reading the plan it says to put the insignia cloth on BOTH sides - front and back - of the corners. I doubt you need both sides on a Rok because the corners should be under less tension/stress than a Cross Deck, but hey. Anyway, the plan doesn't specifically say to sew the inside edge/radius of the patches, but I don't know if he'd intend for you to do so or not without asking.)
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Simon

Discovering Something that Doesn't Exist...

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Popeye
Kite of the Year 2008
Kite of the Year 2008


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 389
Location: Brighton MI

PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have that album! on vinyl even! I'm not a DeadHead but it is a good cover...
Hard to fly? are you kidding? Rolling Eyes these are the easiest there is. No- no drogue, no tails, no kidding... if it flies unstable your bridle is too short. If it pulls too hard your lower bridle is too short. you need to be able to adjust it for left/right which is easy if you can untie the bridle tow point knot. You should be able to fly this on a 2-point bridle. I do, and it is one of the kites you can always be sure will fly in almost any measurable wind up to a near gale.
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themax



Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 247
Location: Lafayette, Colorado

PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Popeye wrote:
if it flies unstable your bridle is too short. If it pulls too hard your lower bridle is too short.


You might also increase the depth of the bow of the top cross piece to increase stability. I always bowed mine too little until someone showed me the right way.
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Jason
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Invention, my dear friends, is 93% perspiration, 6% electricity, 4% evaporation, and 2% butterscotch ripple. --Willy Wonka
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DMF



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Halifax,NS

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I hit a road block tonight! Sad . I have all the corner pockets done and when I started framing up the kite I realized that I don't have any ferrels for my vertical spars! Well I guess it's time for another order. My initial plan was to frame it with Carbon fiber. I see a lot of skyshark being used. is there a big advantage to them? once the summer hits I tend to be flying in a relatively heavy wind place.
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Fore Check
Grand Champion, Kite, & Kitebuilder of the Year 09
Grand Champion, Kite, & Kitebuilder of the Year 09


Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 3840
Location: The Montessori School of Kites (near Findlay, OH)

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What exactly are you using for spars?
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Simon

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CJQ
Grand Champion, Kitebuilder of the Year 2006
Grand Champion,  Kitebuilder of the Year 2006


Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 4595
Location: Coopersburg, PA - USA

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Simon, just saw you refered to me using insignia cloth reinforcements on corners . Well I have a theory,,,lol. I suggest putting insignia cloth on both sides for two reasons,,,first because it stiffens up the sail to reduce some wrinkle,,,secondly it looks better on both sides rather than looking at the adheasive side of the reinforcemt thru the sail rsn. Now, about using insignia cloth instead of 3.9 oz. Dacron,,, It was easier for my class to use insignia rather than dacron,it functioned well and was much quicker. I suggested to sew the inside edge of the patch, perhaps not necessary but it's good insurance. Hope this helps

CLIFF
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DMF



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Halifax,NS

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fore Check wrote:
What exactly are you using for spars?


I was going to use RET75 for the horizontals and RET414 for verticals. Now I do have RET505 as well. THe 505 fit overtop of the 414. Could I cut a short segment and use that for a ferrel on the outside of the 414?
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DMF



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Halifax,NS

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CJQ wrote:
Hi Simon, just saw you refered to me using insignia cloth reinforcements on corners . Well I have a theory,,,lol. I suggest putting insignia cloth on both sides for two reasons,,,first because it stiffens up the sail to reduce some wrinkle,,,secondly it looks better on both sides rather than looking at the adheasive side of the reinforcemt thru the sail rsn. Now, about using insignia cloth instead of <a href="http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=24">3.9 oz. Dacron</a>,,, It was easier for my class to use insignia rather than dacron,it functioned well and was much quicker. I suggested to sew the inside edge of the patch, perhaps not necessary but it's good insurance. Hope this helps

CLIFF


Thanks I think I will sew it down. I decided to use insignia for the simple reason that I didn't have any white dacron! Like they say necessity is the mother of invention!
appreciate the help
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kiteguy
Kitebuilder of the Year 2005
Kitebuilder of the Year 2005


Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 8467
Location: USA - Kansas, Overland Park - Near Kansas City

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DMF wrote:
Fore Check wrote:
What exactly are you using for spars?


I was going to use RET75 for the horizontals and RET414 for verticals. Now I do have RET505 as well. THe 505 fit overtop of the 414. Could I cut a short segment and use that for a ferrel on the outside of the 414?


Yes, you can. Go for it, and get that beauty in the air!! Wink
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Dave Ellis
Kites + Kids = Education

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CJQ
Grand Champion, Kitebuilder of the Year 2006
Grand Champion,  Kitebuilder of the Year 2006


Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 4595
Location: Coopersburg, PA - USA

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi DMF, the 505 will work just fine. It can be an external ferrule because it's a wrapped filiment tube.

CLIFF
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DMF



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Halifax,NS

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent!!
Thanks guys

Dana
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Fore Check
Grand Champion, Kite, & Kitebuilder of the Year 09
Grand Champion, Kite, & Kitebuilder of the Year 09


Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 3840
Location: The Montessori School of Kites (near Findlay, OH)

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to confirm the external ferrule with 505 (not that it's needed, but hey Laughing )

I've got a couple of kites that I used .500 Carbon for the spreaders and the external ferrule for it is RET602. Same stuff, same idea, just bigger. It will work fine. Cool It *might* even be a bit lighter than the internal Ferrels; the internal Ferrels that I have for RET412 are *thick* walled and a bit heavy; what I'm saying is that it wouldn't suprise me if a 4" internal ferrule (from the catalog) weighs more than a 4" length of RET505 (I don't have a scale but it feels that way.)

Not exactly sure what material would be in the catalog if you were purchasing a full length tube of the stuff those Ferrels are cut from...
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Discovering Something that Doesn't Exist...

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Mrhide



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 1571
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did I hear pinball?!

turns out I'm "a little" into it too:
http://mrhide.pinnesota.org/

in fact, my avatar pic is when I won pinbrawl division B at expo 2004!


ps: Nice Rok!
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DMF



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Halifax,NS

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mrhide wrote:
Did I hear pinball?!

turns out I'm "a little" into it too:
http://mrhide.pinnesota.org/

in fact, my avatar pic is when I won pinbrawl division B at expo 2004!


ps: Nice Rok!


Nice roster shows you got good taste! I've got limited space in the basement so I'm capped at 5 machines (which I keep hearing is 4 too many from my wife) I'm looking into a FH and LOTR which I see you own or have owned! But have to get rid of something first!

Cheers Dana
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DMF



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Halifax,NS

PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well It's now a kite! Thanks for everyones help. Here is a preview I'm heading out to fly her this afternoon!

Cheers
Dana

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Fore Check
Grand Champion, Kite, & Kitebuilder of the Year 09
Grand Champion, Kite, & Kitebuilder of the Year 09


Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 3840
Location: The Montessori School of Kites (near Findlay, OH)

PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Outstanding!* Cool
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Simon

Discovering Something that Doesn't Exist...

Radix Lecti Rex
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powder_pig
Master Kite Builder
Master Kite Builder


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 5557
Location: Portland, OR, AKA Region 9

PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice! Cool

Let's see it in the air. Very Happy
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Ron

It's sunny and windy in the summer and cold and snowy in the winter...this must be what heaven is like.
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DMF



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Halifax,NS

PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well no air pics yet! I seem to have built a propellor. I'm going to have to read a bit more on tuning this kite! Question Sad Sad
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